Have you ever wondered why black characters in recent cartoons are so badly drawn? The ones above are from Clampett's "Coal Black" in the mid 40s and they're drawn great, but take a look at the ones from modern cartoons like "Bebe's Kids"
and "Boonedocks"....Arrrgh! What happened?
I really don't know what happened but I'll make a guess.
"Coal Black" was considered racist by some critics and was taken out of circulation. Later artists, many of whom had never seen Coal Black, were forced to reinvent the wheel and come up with a whole new way of drawing funny black people. That's a tough problem. When I try to draw a funny white guy I can reference Elmer Fudd and dozens of others. I don't have to start from scratch. I can reference a tradition. Artists who try to reference the tradition of funny black drawings have a door closed in their face.
Let me make it clear where I stand about racial issues. I can't stand racists or racism. I would never do anything to promote racism. But even I can see that that the ban on Coal Black is handicapping the development of funny black cartoons. History will never forgive us if we let the hip-hop era slip through our fingers without comedic comment. Warners doesn't have to put Coal Black on TV but it should at least make it available on DVD where artists, including black artists, can get hold of it.
I absolutely agree. Ethnic humor is part of American culture and so is caricature.
ReplyDeleteWe shouldn't have to pander to the tastes of lactose intolerant white women who are offended on behalf of everyone else.
Coal Black is a celebration of black jazz and was made in cooperation with black entertainers.
That's right! I'm no racist, but I love that cartoon! I also love Tex Avery's "All This and Rabbit Stew". It's just funny cartoons!
ReplyDeleteAlthough, I think the reason why black characters in modern cartoons are so badly drawn is because they use things like graffity art and anime for references. The characters in the Boondocks are horrible drawings only because the artist can't draw more than zero expressions or styles. It's like he learned how to draw from subway walls rather than from comics or cartoons. These new artist only draw what white people think black people would (or should) enjoy rather than pulling from both new and classic styles, or even creating their own styles. So everything becomes inbred.
I'm sure there are many funny black cartoonists today, except they're not well known because they don't cop-out and draw the graffity style fad. Seems like people would rather just follow fads than make funny drawings. It's very sad.
Judging by the screen shots up here, it looks like Warner Bros. has spent money restoring it. Why wouldn't they release it on a DVD and get some of that money back in revenue.
ReplyDeleteIncidently, I have a black caricature in an animated TV show idea I'd like to make. I have it on my blog. It's called Brooding Idiot with a Big Gun. Scroll down to the mouse named Afro-Deezy-Jack. I was thinking moreso about the black characters in Ralph Bakshi's films of the '70's than of Coal Black.
If possible, I'd like Garrett Morris (of SNL fame) to provide the voice. I think that would be cool. B)
I think the problem is more with their "DEPICTION". Presenting a black character as anything short of...
ReplyDeleteA Judge - A President - A doctor -Police commisioner ( or any highly reguarded job) would be considered Racism....You cant even draw a brother as a basketball player without being called racist!
The historical value of these cartoons should not be erased!! they should be Embraced!
I think alot of people forget that cartoons are caricatures of real life and not really meant to be flatering or complementing. They're meant to be funny. Just look at the Hollywood characters drawn in the Coocoo Nut Grove cartoons. Clark Gabel with flapping ears? The caricatures may mock but at the same time they play homage and celebrate. People forget that.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThere's a pungent irony to "Coal Black," in that it probably had a larger African-American cast that many main stream movies or cartoons of the era, what with Vivian Dandridge, Ruby Dandridge and Zoot Watson doing voices, and Eddie Beale's group punching up the WB Orchestra.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, of all the cartoons put on the back shelf of the vault because of racial depictions, "Coal Black" is one of the few ones that is actually funny and interesting (aside from a historical perspective, e.g. Tokio Jokio). Most "Negro" cartoons can be crashingly dull (see, e.g., "Angel Puss," a cartoon I'll bet Chuck Jones wishes he'd never made).
With refs like the lyrics to "Ol' Man Mose" (a hit song of the era), wartime refs, and very good vocal peformances (and some hot jazz in spots), plus a few well-placed jabs at Disney, "Coal Black" *does* deserve another chance. It's an artifact. You can only measure how far you've come, when you still have the milepost you started from there. (In this sense, John K.'s comment re culture is directly on point.)
Yeah, I agree. "Coal Black" is definatly one of the greatest cartoon produced and it should be shown in mainstream audience. If Warners are so worried about "backlash" (and I think they will get some if they release it), they should just put a disclaimer in the beginning. Warners recently released some "politically incorrect" cartoons as a DVD bonus for some old movie and these disclaimers were visible.
ReplyDeleteI'm just glad the short is at least available in some public domain tapes.
Eddie, have you ever seen "Prickly City"? There's a girl with darker skin* in the strip that's getting flack because it looks like a "racist" caricature. I don't see any big deal, though . There are some strips at www.pricklycity.com
WARNING - This a (right-wing) political strip.
*-her real race is unknown, since the girl always answers "American" as her race.
Well, I think you're right about it all being a matter of depiction, however, I disagree that you couldn't show black characters from all walks of life, provided that you handle these caricatures in a manner that relates to REAL people, and not just a retread of some minstrel show character from the jim crow era.
ReplyDeleteBoondocks and Bebe's Kids (as well as Bruce Smith's Proud Family)were designed and created by black artists,and if they choose to depict people of color without gigantic lips and bugged out eyes, I'm going to assume that they chose not to go that route because that is not the way they see themselves.
--Now, the flatness and lifelessness of these designs are more of a problem regarding the Cal Arts style (which I hate),but that's another rant.---
As a member of an interracial family myself, I have to admit that I find some of the old sterotypes hard to take. Although I do like Clampett's cartoons, because it's obvious that, as John K points out, that these were more about the music culture, and that they were handled by an artist that respected both the music and the performers. The thought of seeing a Fats Wallers character depicted as anything else but a caracature of a large black man would be just as stupid as watching "Ain't Misbehavin'" with an all white cast. Some other cartoons made during this era,however, are a little harder to stomache. Freling's stuff for instance, really cross an ugly line."Witch is Which?" and "Goldilocks and the Jivin' Bears" have characters that are just plain malicious.
I'd have to say that the best rule to adhere to when drawing characters that are of a race other than your own, make sure you are making your choices based on LIFE, and not just based on a copy of someone else's fifty year old cartoon. As an artist,you should be free to depict anything that actually exists.(I think that it's not only the artist's unspoken right, it is his duty) But, if your only experience with people of other races is through movies, TV,and old cartoons, you might want to think about getting out more.
--Now, the flatness and lifelessness of these designs are more of a problem regarding the Cal Arts style (which I hate),but that's another rant.
ReplyDelete"john a" said what I was going to write about this, mainly that the designers on Bebe and most famously the creator/artist on "Boondocks" are themselves black, and beholden to no one in how he chooses to design his black characters. But to directly compare the Clampett drawings to anything else--either from today's depictions of anyu kind of characters, any "look", or any other artists work--is defeating. Clampett's work is just so stand-alone, really...it's never been duplicated or matched on its own terms. Not even by John.
But it isn't a contest.
As for the "flat Calarts style"? Is that an opinion of yours, "John a"? Because that's just akin to what John says about opinions repeated from books that have no basis in actual fact: a person with any knowledge of Calarts students of the last, oh, 25 years knows that the so-called Calarts style is as varied as the thousand+ students who went there. In my class there were some people who were influenced by Milt Kahl, some Fred Moore, some Glen Keane, some Rod Scribner, some Jay Ward, some H-B, some even John K. Their styles were very disparate and also, of course, reflected their own original ideas and style.
Does "Foster's Home" look like "Brother Bear"? because a majority of those people went to Calarts(though by no means all). It's a red herring of discussion that is empty and ultimately meaningless. BTW, as I've mentioned before Eddie himself taught at the dreaded Calarts for one semester(he was thrilled to do it, IIRC) and introduced the class to a lot of his favorite things, from Mad Magazine to Spumco and Clampett, etc. etc.--I've met people who were in his class who now work in the indiustry who remember his influence...they're "Calarts" too...so what does that label mean, anyway?
"Boondocks and Bebe's Kids (as well as Bruce Smith's Proud Family)were designed and created by black artists,and if they choose to depict people of color without gigantic lips and bugged out eyes, I'm going to assume that they chose not to go that route because that is not the way they see themselves."
ReplyDelete...Fat Albert & The Cosby Kids, anyone? How did Dr. William H. Cosby get away with it? The one guy's lips were so big he couldn't talk clearly - and the voice was provided by the good Doctor, himself?!?!?
And the gang making music on trash picked out of a junk yard? That's straight from "Jungle Jitters!"
Neither here nor there, I know...
narthax:
ReplyDeleteYeah! I remember that special - It had nada to do with the Filmation series. I remember the stock footage for the bridge collapsing when ol' Fat Albert came trundling on the scene.
Man - I wonder when it last aired and what's keeping off the market these days? Thanks for the memory jolt!
Gosh, I make a long winded rant and no one notices, but I slap a couple of ill-chosen words together and I cut someone to the quick. Jenny, please forgive me if I offended you, I didn't mean to disparage the output of an entire college (I'm well aware of the variety of work that is that is created within those walls, and I'm familiar with the abundance of talented folks that have come from there too(some of them are even friends of mine) Allow me to clarify: the "CalArts flat style", is ALL that I was refering to, not the Cal-Arts Disney style(which is a style unto its own) I was refering to The psuedo-retro Flat (no depth) look that seems to be favored by the industry at the moment, mostly because (I presume) it lends itself to flash animation. It's a personal prejudice, that's all, I like animation with weight and volume,figures that emote, that feature the illusion of life, rather that stuff that emulates cutouts. That's all. It doesn't mean I can't enjoy "flat" animation, I'm just tired of seeing it everywhere. Even Disney TV doesn't do real character animation any more. I'm sorry I used the words CalArts as to describe something I vieiw as a negative. I chose my words poorly (believe me, It's not the first time)Jenny, can't we put this unpleasant episode behind us and be friends?
ReplyDeleteNathax: Those designs for the original Cosby special were great! Sort of a combination of Richard Williams and Ralph Bakshi. The same studio also did a Flip Wilson special that was shown a few times and then disappeared.
ReplyDeleteJohn A.,
ReplyDeleteAre you referring to "Clerow Wilson and the Miracle of P.S. 14"? That were produced at Friz Freleng's DFE studio. They also made another one called "Clerow Wilson's Great Escape".
Charles b; If it was the one about them trying to raise money for band instruments, yes that was it. It was the only one I saw.
ReplyDeleteI recently screened Coal Black at Brooks College in Long Beach to a crowd of students who had never heard of it before. There wasn't a single complaint, in fact, one black student commented that it was a great film.
ReplyDeleteI think people who don't like Coal Black just don't like cartoons.
See ya
Steve
Sure, john a! No hard feelings, friend! ; D
ReplyDeleteI love discussing all this stuff and didn't read a lot of hostility into your comment beyond the use of the word "hate"(after all--I did say I'd have written most of what you wrote about the topic)--I see what you mean, though. I admit I am definitely a tad touchy anytime there's a use of the term "Calarts style"-only because it's been(imho)abused, if not simply overused.
But you express yourself very well and man, that's what it's all about. Do carry on. : )
It's a shame that the only significant spillovers of the Harlem Renaissance into cartoons (that I know of) were this short and Hirschfeld's book, but it's a bigger shame that one of the ten (maybe five) greatest short cartoons has been kept out of view and off the lists.
ReplyDeletePeople don't choose to understand that "Coal Black" was done with the most respect for its subject matter of any Warner's cartoon- don't the pictures show Clampett proudly showing the boards to black performers? Folks today are not upset about the lack of respect, they're upset about the lack of pandering and paternalism. In twenty more years "Coal Black" will look better than ever and things like "The Boondocks" will be under scrutiny.
On a side note, I can't believe that outside of Jenny's influence list, I'm about to be the first person to type the word "Scribner" on this page...his work is what makes this cartoon a monument.
Most people don't know that around this same time there was a push to do a Broadway musical called "Coal Black"- same basic idea- scored by Duke Ellington, with stage designs by Tee Hee and Mary Blair. The artwork and apparently some of the score exist. It didn't get a backer.
As I started out to say, the Harlem Renaissance was as natural a subject for animation as rappers are now...and it doesn't look like either subject will be served except for one great cartoon- one of the greatest.
Coal Black needs to be seen in context. Was it racist? No. But that is unusual. Look at how much was racist. It's relatively simple for history to have become confused about it. It stands out as one of a small handfull of works depicting blacks that are not racist.
ReplyDeleteI can point you to trademarks of the early 20th century like "Nigger Head", that look remarkably similar in design. The early 20th century is full of racist, big toothed, big lipped watermelon-eating logos. Lazy, unintelligent, unkempt, happy subservient darkies is the imagery that made white people more comfortable about blacks for decades. Unfortunately an unfunny racist caricature looks a lot like a funny, sympathetic caricature. The differences ain't so much in the art as in the underlying intentions.
In the 1940's Hollywood was racist. A black guy in a movie was either carrying bags or serving drinks, and saying, "Yes, sir." No blacks at all were behind the camera or in the offices. Very few are to this day.
The U.S. army did not even want any dead black people mixing their blood with dead white people on Omaha beach. Think about it. At that time white culture did not even consider blacks good enough to get shot and killed alongside whites.
So the fact that Clampett wasn't that way is easily lost. And for better or worse, the idea that blacks are now offended by charicatures that might actually resemble themselves is also easily understandable in this context. The water has been muddied by those with far less than good intentions. It may not become clear for a while yet.
I want a copy of Coal Black, too.
When you’re drawing cartoons, you’re in the stereotype business whether you admit it or not. Ethnic differences are a reality of life - and cartoons are caricatures of reality.
ReplyDelete(Yosemite Sam, for instance, is a specific caricature of a redneck. He is no more and no less a racial stereotype than anything in Coal Black.) Criticizing a cartoon for being "stereotypical" makes as much sense as complaining about Technicolor because you don’t care for “red”. It is what it is by definition. It all comes with the package.
I think what sometimes gets construed (or misconstrued) as “racist” is a perceived attitude of superiority, that may or may not be intended, in a given film, book or play.
However, NO such subtext is present anywhere in Coal Black. It’s a direct parody of Disney’s Snow White, a comment on home front America during WWII, and a celebration of jazz music. It has no agenda beyond entertainment, and it delivers the goods (you should pardon the expression) in spades!
It was also ahead of its time. As far as I know, the first depiction of a drop-dead gorgeous, sexy black female character in a cartoon occurs in Coal Black. Maybe someone can correct me on this, but I don’t believe that at the time of its release (in January of 1943) there were many live-action filmmakers putting sexy black girls into mainstream movies. Lena Horne and Dorothy Dandridge would come later, but Coal Black actually came out first. Clampett was an innovator on every level.
(Just like Hal Roach, who brought the first depictions of equality and friendship between black and white characters to the screen in his OUR GANG films - and is unfairly maligned to this day for having done so!)
To criticize the film for its supposed “insensitivity” makes no sense when you examine the bigger picture and place it in historical context. Or even if you don’t. It’s a consistently brilliant cartoon.
As far as the other characters in the cartoon go - the designs of the black dwarfs in Coal Black are no less flattering than the designs of the white dwarfs in the Disney film. (I’ve never heard of Snow White being banned, censored or criticized because it “debases” people with genetic dwarfism, which would make as much sense as banning Coal Black.)
I can’t believe that in this day and age we’re still censoring 60-year old cartoons! It's just further proof (as if we needed any more) of America’s contempt for its own cultural legacy and its own national identity. What a pity.
Hi Eddie
ReplyDeleteWhat WB should do is release an ALL Bob Clampett cartoon DVD collection and have you and John do Audio Commentaries on most of the cartoons.
You are right, We should get to see "Coal Black" on DVD! Not to mention these other Clampett classics.
1. Tin Pan Alley Cats
2. Tick Tock Tuckerd
3. Hare Ribbin
4. Russian Rhapsody
"PLEASE WB, GIVE US AN ALL CLAMPETT DVD!!!!!!!!!!"
Jesse
P.S.
I also would like to see the Tex Avery cartoons "Uncle Tom's Cabana" and "Half Pint Pygmy".
Mike raises an incredibly important point: almost all fiction is based in types- 99.99 percent of it. Gum-smacking Brooklyn waitresses, addled German professors, tough-guy detectives, sarcastic Irish cops, self-righteous (but hypocritical)lawyers, windbag politicians, tired, exasperated judges...and let's not forget the prostitute with a heart of gold.
ReplyDeleteWhen a truly original character like Bugs Bunny or Ralph Kramden or Norma Desmond or Charlie Brown takes the stage, it's an event.
People love types, and story- peddlers love to give 'em to us. They're comfortable and easily accepted.
One thing "Coal Black" is definitely not guilty of is recycling ideas.
Where do you think Filmation Fat Albert falls on this contnuum? I think they were funnier designs than what Boondocks uses.
ReplyDeleteI remember the primetime pilot as a different, artier, design, although I 'watched' it, primarily from the other room, just as I watched much of the Saturday Morning version with my eyes closed, still asleep in bed. Was the soundtrack of the pilot lifted directly from his Cosby's comedy albums? I know the story pre-existed.
I don't know to what degree Cosby may have provided voices for the Filmation version.
And as bad as Filmation may have been, they were produced more polished finished work compared to HB at the time (at least in my memory, from way back in the day)
Actually, I think we're ALL in agreement with Eddie's original statement, Coal Black should be on DVD (maybe they should put it on a disc with some other wartime shorts with other "controversial" subjects.) Slap a parents advisory sticker on it and everyone's covered. Confused parents won't mistake it for the Care Bears or Land Before Time part sixteen, and those of us who choose to share it with our families can do so. That's the solution--package it responsibly, and let the public make their own decision. I've never believed in a one size fits all society- not everything is suitable for all audiences. Every one should be free to determine what their level of tolerence is on their own, as long as they don't bother any one else with their preferences, and in return, others should show the same courtesy when going about their own business. It seems so simple, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteIf you want to see Black characters drawn by a Black Cartoonist, I offer you this:
ReplyDeletehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/cartoonjoescartoons/files/Bacl-to-School%20Follies%20of%202006%20a.jpg
Warning: It's kinda NAUGHTY...
"John A said...
ReplyDeleteBoondocks was designed and created by black artists,and if they choose to depict people of color without gigantic lips and bugged out eyes, I'm going to assume that they chose not to go that route because that is not the way they see themselves."
Are you assuming they see themselves as having eyes that take up half their heads and mouths the size of pinholes? I assume it's because anime styles are more marketable today than 1940's styles.
Coal Black as well as everything that would sell should be on dvd and not repressed. If someone is offended, they wouldn't have to buy it.
I can't tell about the rest of the world, but looking from outside the US, the weirdest thing is that nowadays a lot of black people are drawn with no lips!! That's the craziest thing ever! Blacks have lots of other features besides darker skin, why pretend they don't exist? Physical details have no moral. I have big ears and I'd be pretty annoyed if someone drew me with no ears at all from fear of pissing me off.
ReplyDeleteThese drawings are funny- end of story! I showed 'em to my negro buddy and he laughed his big black ass off!
ReplyDeleteBlack people in recent cartoons are drawn no worse than white people. Actually they're probably more interesting ususally.
ReplyDeleteCoal Black is a great cartoon and should be made available.
But personally I have no desire to see a new era of cartoons filled with black people with giant grotesque lips taking up 3/4 of their face and big googly eyes, bright yellow skinned buck toothed squinty eyed Asians or any of the other popular 40s stereotypes. I can accept them in the context of the times they were made, but we don't need to revisit them anymore than we need to revisit minstrel shows and blackface.
Although I could definitely take more female characters drawn like Coal Black (who is allowed to be drawn as a regular looking sexy woman who just so happens to be black).
Anonymous...: That's a very funny comment. Especially because I find those old blackface tap dancing films to be very bizzare, and have actually wanted to try doing that for a while! Not like Michael Jackson though.
ReplyDeleteThis is a great comment page to read, this is the most discussion I have ever encountered about this short. It seems that people don't really even like to discuss it, because it is deemed "racist". Parts of it definitely are racist, but most of it is just very fun, one of the most upbeat cartoons I have ever watched! And come on, how racist can it be, the main character, Coal Black, is SMOKIN' hot!
One thing I have always found interesting in this short is the first shot. It's supposedly just a black woman telling her grandaughter a story... but the bandana on the gradma's head makes it look like she has horns, and they are sitting in front of a roaring fire, which is making the whole frame blaring red! It seems as if these black women are sitting in hell, and the granmother is the devil!
This has always been the most suprising part of this cartoon for me. So... subliminally racist? Or am I looking too far into this shot? I don't know, take a look at it again if you have a copy. Or it could just be the fact that the copy I have is much too red throughout the whole thing, ha.
"...we don't need to revisit them anymore than we need to revisit minstrel shows and blackface...I could definitely take more female characters drawn like Coal Black (who is allowed to be drawn as a regular looking sexy woman who just so happens to be black)."
ReplyDeleteA bona fide hypocrite! I'm not even going to say why- you have to figure this one out on your own buddy!
"A bona fide hypocrite! I'm not even going to say why- you have to figure this one out on your own buddy!"
ReplyDeleteNo, illuminate me...oh please do.
SurferJoe: Are you sure about "Coal Black" being pitched as a Broadway show? Maybe you mean Ellington's musical "Jump for Joy" which was debuted in L.A. just before Pearl Harbor was bombed.
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping your facts are right because a collaboration of the kind you talked about is fascinating to think about!
I have no desire to see a new era of cartoons filled with black people with giant grotesque lips taking up 3/4 of their face and big googly eyes, bright yellow skinned buck toothed squinty eyed Asians or any of the other popular 40s stereotypes.
ReplyDeleteI thought icebox's MR. WONG was pretty funny, whether it's supposed to be permitted or not. It was smart enough to be a lampoon of a stereotype, even while being one. I would not be offended by a similar treatment of a black character. There's a difference between irreverent and demeaning or racist. But if you go to that line, somebody will always question whether you crossed it or had any right to go there at all.
Buckwheat gorging on watermelons in a watermelon patch and then rolling down the street like a beer barrel is funny. Maybe it has no right to be, and maybe the NAACP hopes you never see it, but it's fucking funny, anyway.
There's nothiong wrong with exaggerating the visual features of what makes one race different to another.
ReplyDeleteBut...people who say 'Coal Black' isn't racist are just lying. It's horrendous...
That's not the point of the post I know but...Just thought I'd throw that in there.
Archetype vs Stereotype?
ReplyDeleteBut...people who say 'Coal Black' isn't racist are just lying. It's horrendous...
ReplyDeleteI said it wasn't and I didn't mean to lie. In what respects? Explain it to me.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"But...people who say 'Coal Black' isn't racist are just lying. It's horrendous..."
ReplyDeleteGee, you're right. I was lying. Maybe it should be censored. Maybe everything you find "horrendous" should be removed from your delicate sensibilities. I think you should be the arbitor of taste for the rest of us.
You've got a lot of work to do. Pepe Le Pew, Wally Walrus and Baba Looey are also racial stereotypes. We mustn’t offend, you know – so let’s start banning those cartoons too.
But why stop there? People with afflictions shouldn’t be offended either, should they? NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE OFFENDED BY ANY CARTOON CHARACTER EVER AGAIN! And we don't want to offend little Alex Whitington, do we? He's sensitive.
Let’s see... Dopey and Goofy are clearly retarded, Sleepy has a narcoleptic disorder, and Bashful has social phobias.
The Three Bears poke fun at domestic violence, Witch Hazel offends Wiccans, and Peg Leg Pete demonizes the physically-challenged. And don’t even get me started on Mister Magoo!
While we’re on the subject, let’s censor every character with a speech impediment, too!
Wave goodbye to Elmer Fudd, Daffy Duck, Sylvester, Porky Pig and Popeye. Hell, why not just rewrite history and deny our cultural heritage, and ban cartoons altogether? That seems the easiest way, doesn’t it?
Let’s make the world safe for hypocrisy.
Let’s hear it for censorship! Hooray!!
actually think Bebe's Kids is pretty cool lookin.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with Bebe's kids is they are too cute and mainstream. Anybody familiar with the standup routine they are based on knows it. Bebe's kids were little unruly ghetto demons and god knows they momma musta had some issues, too. But the producers backed off from the honest ghetto comedy and made it all cross-culturally family-friendly. Maybe they were afraid to make it that honest, and maybe rightly so, but then, why make it at all? Just to ruin a guy's concept? Ick.
Maybe everything you find "horrendous" should be removed from your delicate sensibilities. I think you should be the arbitor of taste for the rest of us.
The problem isn't really offensivness, per se, the problem is that for too long it's been only white people deciding what is funny about everybody else. We have never really had equal opportunity offensiveness. There are now white people who are pissed a Dave Chappelle for his whitefaced newscaster character. The Comedy Central message boards were full of upset crackers calling him a racist for his offensive depictions of whiteness. About time. I love it.
Now, maybe one day we can have a Chinese cartoonist drawing "Hymie of the Holocaust", or a gay Latino artist doing "Wanda Lunt, the Waspy Cunt"... Now THAT'S equality.
What was Elmer Fudd, an Eskimo?
ReplyDelete"Now, maybe one day we can have a Chinese cartoonist drawing "Hymie of the Holocaust", or a gay Latino artist doing "Wanda Lunt, the Waspy Cunt"... Now THAT'S equality."
I was waiting for someone to introduce actual slurs into the discussion, and pretend that's the same thing as a cartoon.
Not that you have issues or anything. Good luck with your hilarious comedy ideas.
NOW YOU wanna get all sensitive. I'm exaggerating to make a point. That IS comedy. Talk about hypocrisy.
ReplyDeleteWhat "issues" could you possibly be referring to?
We are talking about stereotypes and I am making the point that the world is a little more comfortable for those who control them.
Didn't you just talk about WOPS like 3 days ago?
Quoting animazing:
ReplyDelete"Folks folks folks!
Message boards like this are a chance for us to come together and say that animation is swell!
They weren't made for disagreement! Let's all shake hands and agree that cartoon imagination running by at 24 frames per second is POUND FOR POUND, your best entertainment value!
I slave away at this site for sometimes up to 25 minutes per month, but it's a sacrifice I make for the gooderment of animation kind.
So let's agree to agree."
focusing on differences between races breeds racism, thats a fact
ReplyDeletesame thing w/ gender and sexism.
white black brown / and men and women have much more in common than they do differences
I agree that Coal Black is a cultural relic; I'm sure most of you are caucasian, any blacks care to comment?
Eddie,
ReplyDeleteYou should start some type of online petition to give Warners an incentive to realse coal back.
I'm sure a ton of people would sign it.
any blacks care to comment?
ReplyDeleteBeen doing it.
Focusing on differences is not the root of racism. The need to feel superior or to justify dominance or nationalism or exploitation is. If you don't have those tendencies, you can point out all the differences you want, and what's the big deal? It's either comedy or anthropology, but it's not racism. But, in a world where racism is a harsh reality, it's difficult for even someone with no ill will to crack wise about a group that is trying to get established. Why should Mexicans laugh at the Frito Bandito? Why should Native Americans be enthused about the Cleveland Indians logo? Why should Chinese Americans guffaw at MR. Magoo's houseboy? These things are harmless to white people, they can't see why anybody whould get upset. Maybe if they could find other depictions of themselves in American culture as bankers or doctors or teachers, like white people can, it would not be quite so unnerving. What if white culture was represented ONLY by Elmer Fudd?
As a black guy I say "Coal Black and the Seben Dwarfs" had the best looking charictures of black people I ever saw. Bebe kids drawing are fairly decent drawn and The Boondocks simply look strange.
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ReplyDelete"SurferJoe: Are you sure about "Coal Black" being pitched as a Broadway show? Maybe you mean Ellington's musical "Jump for Joy" which was debuted in L.A. just before Pearl Harbor was bombed.
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping your facts are right because a collaboration of the kind you talked about is fascinating to think about!"
Eddie: I've held some of the drawings in my hands- it was absolutely for real. Whether the Ellington music went somewhere else or how much was actually written, I couldn't say...but I've seen drawings and correspondence. See what Jordan remembers on this.
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ReplyDelete"...focusing on differences between races breeds racism, thats a fact
ReplyDeletesame thing w/ gender and sexism.
white black brown / and men and women have much more in common than they do differences..."
That's just the kind of thinking that comedy needs. If only they'd worked some subplots about genocide into F TROOP.
I'll bet you're a lot of fun at parties.
"Didn't you just talk about WOPS like 3 days ago?"
ReplyDeleteWell, those are my people - and it wasn't as if I was pitching a comedy concept about the Holocaust, like you.
But, okay, point taken. Don't I get a pass on that, like Chris Rock with the N-word?
You can have a pass on the N-word, for all I care. Just be careful what N's you use it with.
ReplyDeleteNow, let's hold hands, and go to the zoo!
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ReplyDelete"You can have a pass on the N-word, for all I care. Just be careful what N's you use it with.
ReplyDeleteNow, let's hold hands, and go to the zoo!"
To be perfectly honest with you, it's not in my vocabulary.
See you at the monkey house!
Hey Eddie!
ReplyDeletehttp://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7345/2426/1600/fats%20001.jpg
Is this more like a funny drawing of a black man. It may not be the best drawing, but at least I tried to make it look like him and not some white guy.
I just remembered another black character I have. He's one of my Censor Monkeys. I made him look like one of the Black Panthers even, and have monkey features. That's something that racist cartoonists were doing all the time about 100 years ago. But, I feel that my character is justified because all the monkeys (even the white American redneck stereotype) have monkey features so there's no need to complain.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone's keeping Coal Black off of DVD, it's that monkey of mine and others like him. (Alex Whitington for one ;P )
If anyone's keeping Coal Black off DVD, it's white executives.
ReplyDeleteI should know - I work with them.
I was never offended?
ReplyDeleteWho said I was offended?
"When you’re drawing cartoons, you’re in the stereotype business whether you admit it or not."
ReplyDeleteIf that were the gospel truth, then cartoons would be in their golden age right now. Absolutely nothing but characters we've seen a million times before. Nothing specific, original or interesting about anyone or anything. Pandering to the viewer's own lack of imagination, making them feel more secure about knowing less than shit about anything. In other words, the pinnacle of achievement in the field of cartoons.