Tuesday, September 14, 2010
WHY CARTOONISTS SHOULD BE INTERESTED IN AUTISM
Sorry for the delay in getting the next episode of Pizza Boy up. I had a lot of trouble with Beta Blogger last time I posted, maybe because my desktop was cluttered with hundreds of unsorted pictures. It's taken me almost two days to straighten it out, so all my blog work got pushed back. Don't worry, Pizza Boy is alive and well.
While I'm here, I thought I'd put up an hour-long lecture (above) by Temple Grandin, the best known writer on the subject of autism and Aspergers. She has both conditions herself and is amazingly articulate on the subject.
I don't think I have either myself, but Grandin interests me. I like her speaking style with its clarity and digressions to detail. She has the autistic propensity to concentrate on things rather than people, an approach that makes some autustic people seem cold and mechanistic, but which in her case is unexpectedly appealing. She's a good role model for people with that problem.
She's also thought provoking. She makes me wonder about the problems of people with low level Aspergers who aren't diagnosed early and are therefore are never given special consideration in school. They may never realize what they have until they're old enough to self-diagnose, but by then they're stuck with bad habits and an unnecessarily botched education.
She also makes me interested to hear how Aspergers people compensate. They're puzzled by the fact that ordinary people often don't mean what they say, and have hidden motives for things, and they're appalled by our insistence that they act that way too. That must lead to some interesting encounters. And autistic people...they have to put up with being touched, with strobing fluorescent lights, loud eating sounds, et al...imagine what their lives must be like. 'Lots of cartoon opportunities here.
BTW: To avoid the long-winded formal introductions, I recommend starting the video several minutes in, when Grandin takes the stage.
This one minute video (above) is a simple list of famous high achievers who are reputed to have been autistic. I don't know if it's accurate, but it sure is interesting.
As long as we're guessing here, I've always suspected that Martin Scorsese and Quentin Tarantino have asperger's. Scorsese in particular, seems to be very uncomfortable in social situations, except when discussing film. Watch "The Scorsese Machine" to see how nervous he is even in front of his parents!
ReplyDeleteThat last video seems to count anyone who is the least bit eccentric as having Asperger's. The two in the list I know quite a bit about are Hitchcock and Jefferson. In both cases I find the diagnosis, well, bizarre. Neither had "significant difficulties in social interaction, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests." (Wikipedia definition.) Jefferson had about the most unrestricted pattern of interests of any person since Leonardo da Vinci! It's hard to even imagine a great statesman or movie director who has major difficulties interacting with people. What the heck are these guys talking about??
ReplyDeletePS: I love Temple Grandin!
Re my earlier comment, I must admit I found that there is a book called "Diagnosing Jefferson," which apparently makes the case that Ol' Tom had Asperger traits, and that this explains various things about him. Temple Grandin evidently wrote the Afterword. I don't know what these traits would be, though.
ReplyDeleteEven though I don't have time to watch the Youtube vids today, due to homework, I have some things I'd like to say about this. For me, I really don't consider autism a real "illness," or at least it doesn't feel like that for me, since I was diagnosed with a form it at 14 days or so and had treatment for it early on, so for the most part, my life is completely normal (despite for a bit of minor stuff like rocking, etc.). In fact, most people don't even know I even have it, unless I tell them! To me, it's merely a word or adjective, and nothing more, although I have seen for myself the severe consequences it can bring for others. It's almost like calling Al Jolson a black man just because as part of his routine, he would dress up in blackface or saying that someone has an OCD disorder because they have an unusual obsession with Justin Beiber or Jersey Shore. Just my two cents.
ReplyDeleteNo offense to any ethnic groups or races due to this comment. I was just using that Al Jolson reference to prove my point.
Leter: I had the same impression you did when watching the video, and the same reaction to the inclusion of Hitchcock and Jefferson. Even so, you can't rule out the possibility.
ReplyDeleteI remember Jonathen Miller telling Dick Cavett that he (Miller) had a stuttering problem. Cavett was amazed because he'd interviewed Miller several times and never noticed it. Miller said that's because he avoided the syllables that trigger the stuttering. He could pass as normal as long as he completely dropped a lot of common words from his vocabulary.
I thought of Miller when you said movie directors and politicians couldn't do what they have to do if they had Aspergers. Miller was a chronic stutterer and yet he managed to act, direct and produce without ayone picking up on the problem.
BTW, thinking about what you said prompted me to rewrite part of the post.
Jorge: Scorcese and Tarantino!? An interesting thought. I'll bet you're right.
A pretty good Temple Grandin biopic came out recently starring Claire Danes.
ReplyDeleteRoberto: Interesting! Boy, you're lucky that had early treatment. You're also lucky in that you appear to have benefited from the focus that mild autism brings. If you have a social inhibition it doesn't show in your comments.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I wonder if Windsor MacKay was autistic? He had enormous focus and an enviable wotk ethic, but his strip was strangely unemotional. It doesn't matter because the strip was so inventive that nobody misses the emotion.
Grr. I wrote up this comment and as soon as I posted it Blogger crashed! I'll try to remember the main parts.
ReplyDeleteI have some issues with this because I witnessed how the system works first hand. I'm pretty cynical about it. Dr. Grandlin is great, but I think there are a lot of dubious psychologists who will take a certain point from her lecture and apply it to someone as proof of a full-blown disorder. School psychologists in particular will hunt for a medical justification on behalf of their school districts. I don't think it something people can afford to be casual about. There might be a benefit to having some of the characteristics, but it is considered a disqualification from the US Military and certain government jobs.
It was popular among psychologists to diagnose Asperger's as a catch-all about ten years ago. I think the people in the last video would probably be highly resentful if they were diagnosed and glommed with people who really need the help.
I wonder what the dividing line between personality and disorder is here and what it's based on. That said... I don't think an adult would willingly want to be diagnosed with it.
I am that very person you were ruminating over. Now at 47, I was "officially" diagnosed with Aspergers & ADHD last year. I do remember being dumbfounded as a kid seeing other kids lie to manipulate things to their advantage. I finally decided I should try "this lying thing" and see if I could pull it off. The terrible thing is, I became an excellent liar for a long time. Nowadays I use that skill for surprising my wife & child at birthdays and holidays. ;-)
ReplyDeleteThere is a saying among Aspys (and Autistics), "When you meet one person with Aspergers, you've met one person with Aspergers". That said, there are a lot of Aspys in engineering because absolutes are a comfort zone. I personally love seeing a problem, solving a problem, and then looking over the solution with huge satisfaction. I'm often mistaken for gloating over a win (of any kind) when what I'm actually doing is sucking all the goodness there is to be had from the moment. Like when you've got a bite of your very favoritest food on the tongue and you can't swallow it just… quite… yet.
I've run into a few mothers recently with diagnosed kids and have tried to help them see things through their childs' eyes. They so want their kids to be able to interact with the rest of the world.
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ReplyDeleteI have had to work with people with various levels of autism, aspiergers and add. What I've found is that the ones that are most frustrating to work with are the ones that view it as some sort of superpower and not a handicap to overcome. They argue over which is better, autism or aspergers. They trot out the lists of famous autistics proudly and they expect the people around them to give them a golden ticket to forgive even the most rude behavior. The ones that are perfectly fine to deal with are the ones that remind themselves that they might be misunderstanding things and make an effort to understand how their autism affects the people around them. Autizm plus selfishness and egotism is a terrible mix. I think the speaker was right when she said that autistic people need the discipline of being taught everyday manners. Without a basic sort of empathy and effort to try to relate to others, they are often so difficult to deal with, most people just avoid them.
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ReplyDeleteI heard that biopic won tons of awards, looking forward to seeing it soon.
ReplyDeleteThanks for bringing this subject up. I love Temple Grandin, she's an amazing person. I really enjoyed the movie too (by the same name).
ReplyDeleteHi Eddie, how have you been? Thanks for the kind words on my blog. Listen, I don't have a comment on this post until I watch the videos, but I can comment on an earlier post: I did make a couple paper mache jack-o-lanterns a few years ago. I copied mine from originals from the 40s and while they look pretty good, they just don't hold a candle to the real thing! Hey, that's a pun. Anyway, they were very difficult to make, but glad I tried it. -Ted
ReplyDeleteThat lady at the top looks like Marjoe.
ReplyDeleteJohn K autistic? Bullshit.
ReplyDeleteAlso, most of the people who post on R&S forums are "retarted."
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ReplyDelete"She makes me wonder about the problems of people with low level Aspergers who aren't diagnosed early and are therefore are never given special consideration in school. They may never realize what they have until they're old enough to self-diagnose, but by then they're stuck with bad habits and an unnecessarily botched education."
ReplyDeleteThis passage reminds me of when I was diagnosed with ADHD. I was so mad at the school for not catching it early.
Hey Zoran, and all,
ReplyDeleteMy name is Steve Pissocra and I'm the Anonymous poster above. My wife set up our Google account long ago and I didn't want to risk losing what I'd typed trying to figure out the account name and password.
I ran across the term Aspy on an Autism support website. I use it here 'cause I don't like typing. ;)
I was so glad to finally be officially diagnosed. It's helped me understand the source of some of my past behavior all the better. For me, understanding of a subject comes when I can see all of its parts down to the molecular level. I'm in awe of people who say, "Just tell me enough info to get the job done." I can't function like that. So the more I know about Aspergers, the more I can work with it in my life.
re Stephen Worth's comment about egotistic Autistics: I haven't dealt with many autistics myself so I haven't seen that. What I can say is that I've been accused of self promotion or pride when that wasn't my intent. The really difficult thing about a social disorder is that when you hurt others' feelings or appear rude it carries moral weight. The default reaction almost always comes back to how much you (the Aspy) care about the offended person. But a man with a twisted spine is never told he could could stand up straight if he really cared. When someone has an easily detected "challenge" others will more easily make allowances for it. When it's less detectable, there comes a much greater demand for trust on the part of the "normal" party. That's especially true for neurological disorders. Forget walking a mile in my shoes, try sitting five minutes under my hat.
Love the blog Eddie, great thinkin' fodder.
Autism is not the same as creativity. Autism and Aspergers are barriers to creativity. They divert focus to obsessive trivia, prevent communication, and can reduce functionality to nil. Creative people aren't "wacky". They are able to focus their energy in a creative and productive direction. For autistic people that is impossible.
ReplyDeleteMaking speculative lists of celebrities who might or might not have the disease says less about the people on the list and more about the person trying to justify and make excuses for his condition rather than addressing it and working on dealing with it.
Instead of asking society to make allowances for autism, autistic people should take responsibility for fitting in within society.
Everybody: Fascinating comments! I'm stuck with doing Pizza Boy for the rest of the night, but I'll reply to these comments tomorrow.
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ReplyDeleteI've known John for about fifteen years. He's definitely not wacky.
ReplyDeleteSteve, The difference between autism and other conditions, like being crippled, is that it doesn't just affect the person with autism. It affects everyone around them. A physically handicapped person just needs people to allow them the space to deal with their own problem. People with conditions affecting their social skills sometimes expect everyone around them to deal with it so they don't have to.
Like I said, I've known good people with aspergers and not so pleasant ones. Im not generalizing. The ones that I'm willing to cut slack for are the ones that make an effort to respect the feelings of others, even the ones they don't necessarily care about. I understand that can be a lifelong struggle. But no one can expect others to go that extra mile for their particular problem if they aren't willing to do the same for the people around them.
I just thought of a good comparison... Extreme cases of autism are like alcoholism. It doesn't just affect the afflicted person. It affects everyone they come in contact with. Accommodating it or making excuses for it only makes it worse. The fact that it's a disease doesn't absolve the person from personal responsibility for negative actions the disease might cause them to make. The only way to deal with it is by making a day to day and hour to hour effort to fight one's natural inclinations. There is no way to deal with a person who has the disease and refuses to address it.
ReplyDeleteIt lines up pretty well actually.
I've been posting a few my thoughts and experiences here. I haven't been trying to build a case for anything, just hoping to let some others know what it looks like from inside the head of a mild Apsy.
ReplyDeleteStephen: I think we agree more than disagree, but I'm going to do a little point by point to compare our viewpoints.
Stephen Worth said...
Autism is not the same as creativity. Autism and Aspergers are barriers to creativity.
They can be. Like Temple, I'm very visual. She uses slides to support her speech. As a graphics pro I learned Powerpoint (blecchhh) well enough to have trained others on it. But if I were to speak to an audience, I'd want a board I could draw on to support my points while talking. The very act of drawing things out helps me to communicate. BTW, isn't creativity mostly problem solving?
They divert focus to obsessive trivia, prevent communication, and can reduce functionality to nil. Creative people aren't "wacky". They are able to focus their energy in a creative and productive direction. For autistic people that is impossible.
I'm staying clear of the "wacky" discussion… The ability to hyper-focus and obsess can be also be a great help in productivity. Shutting out the world to get a project done is a very handy trait.
Making speculative lists of celebrities who might or might not have the disease says less about the people on the list and more about the person trying to justify and make excuses for his condition rather than addressing it and working on dealing with it.
Yeah, these lists are pretty silly, but are you being fair to conclude that the list-maker's motive is likely selfish? Is there no other reason for this list?
Instead of asking society to make allowances for autism, autistic people should take responsibility for fitting in within society.
LOL. And we Aspys are too restricted by a binary viewpoint. I wouldn't frame those two desires as mutually exclusive. I'm sure you didn't mean it to, but that comment sounds to me like you also resent the gross intrusion of wheelchair ramps and the like.
This goes back to my trust comment above. The "norms" have to trust that the "aspys" are telling the truth and not trying to take advantage when they declare their difficulties. I do take responsibility for my place in society. And I want to contribute to it. Even so, the time will come again that I bark, "Just stop!" at my wife when I get mentally overloaded. When I ask for her forgiveness, we then discuss the circumstances so we both know whether I was being a jerk or an Aspy. Would she like it to never happen again? Of course! No more than me. Will it? I'm trying…
Making speculative lists of celebrities who might or might not have the disease says less about the people on the list and more about the person trying to justify and make excuses for his condition rather than addressing it and working on dealing with it.
ReplyDeleteYeah, these lists are pretty silly, but are you being fair to conclude that the list-maker's motive is likely selfish? Is there no other reason for this list?
Instead of asking society to make allowances for autism, autistic people should take responsibility for fitting in within society.
LOL. And we Aspys are too restricted by a binary viewpoint. I wouldn't frame those two desires as mutually exclusive. I'm sure you didn't mean it to, but that comment sounds to me like you also resent the gross intrusion of wheelchair ramps and the like.
This goes back to my trust comment above. The "norms" have to trust that the "aspys" are telling the truth and not trying to take advantage when they declare their difficulties. I do take responsibility for my place in society. And I want to contribute to it. Even so, the time will come again that I bark, "Just stop!" at my wife when I get mentally overloaded. When I ask for her forgiveness, we then discuss the circumstances so we both know whether I was being a jerk or an Aspy. Would she like it to never happen again? Of course! No more than me. Will it? I'm trying…
Zoran: I'm so sorry! I accidentally deleted your last comment, which is doubly regretable because you made a good point. Aaaargh!
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ReplyDeleteNot being able to communicate as effectively verbally and obsessing isn't the same as having special visual skills and the ability to focus on completing a task. People without autism are able to communicate visually and focus on completing tasks too. But they have the ability to communicate on other levels as well. And they can choose what they focus on and what they don't.
ReplyDeleteThere are two reasons I can think of to make a list of great people who may have been autistic... 1) to show that autism isn't a barrier to high achievement or 2) that autism leads to high achievement. I don't believe the latter is true at all, and the former depends on the degree of the handicap. But I question even attributing autism to historical figures that lived centuries before autism was even medically described.
My point is that autism is a handicap that can be overcome. Everyone has limitations, and the way to overcome them isn't to try to convince oneself that the handicap is an asset... It's to address the limitation and work on it.
A close relative was one of those kids. He was never diagnosed in childhood but he has adapted pretty well in every way but socially (he's a plasma physicist). He simply can't read people, gets very cranky when he (often simplistically) perceives that people are not "being logical" & is supremely self-centered.
ReplyDeleteI have worked with some brilliant autistic people in CGI, too & to a normal person, they can seem aloof although they are simply reserving judgement about you.
For what it's worth, I'd like to assure any Aspies reading that Steve is a nice guy at heart. You can trust that if he kicks you under the table, he's trying to tell you something.